Aion Core Project: Regarding The Future Of Aion Core - Aion Core Project

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maria  : (25 July 2012 - 11:55 PM) if you want chek this new project of aion source http://www.immortal-s-ai3.comlu.com/
Loxo  : (17 November 2011 - 11:20 PM) Good to hear :). Then there is no reason for AionCore to not be quiet and I hope it will stay like this because this means Aion's open source is not dead again.
Crash Override  : (17 November 2011 - 09:52 PM) Oh no, Aion X Emu is still there, just weeding out the idiots and posers by taking our time on somethings.
Loxo  : (13 November 2011 - 04:03 PM) Yup, but AionXEmu isn't dead, right ? I mean, it is. But they plan to keep going later from what they said and what is announced on the main page.
Crash Override  : (11 November 2011 - 11:13 PM) Still quiet over here
Bark  : (10 March 2011 - 04:25 PM) Could I save the three Howto I made? I don't have access to "edit" Thank You.
Bark  : (10 March 2011 - 04:23 PM) Thanks for the news.
Razer  : (27 February 2011 - 12:09 PM) <_<
kyo-1  : (08 February 2011 - 08:23 PM) hello everyone
Lomilio  : (07 February 2011 - 07:48 AM) Advice please, when some will be new reviews. (rus)
Lomilio  : (07 February 2011 - 07:47 AM) Hello
maria  : (07 February 2011 - 04:49 AM) HELLO :)
sisop  : (06 February 2011 - 09:12 PM) It's always better to unite in one project.
10ton  : (06 February 2011 - 07:14 PM) more developers and more knowledges and we can up this project :)
sisop  : (06 February 2011 - 06:50 PM) Looks like this.
jefe  : (06 February 2011 - 12:49 AM) realy stop this source?
jefe  : (06 February 2011 - 12:49 AM) WTF!!
maria  : (01 February 2011 - 09:40 PM) Brvavo Reirei ban them all ^^
maiz  : (01 February 2011 - 09:30 AM) Somoeone to help.How i cange points who give mob in Dark Poeta, i need to change it score x2.
Reirei  : (01 February 2011 - 09:28 AM) announcement: I will not allow any more false rumors in forum nor shoutbox. if i encounter any more of those " aion core is dead" i will BAN those accounts. thank you.
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Regarding The Future Of Aion Core Questions? Then read!~~ Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Reirei 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 03:02 AM

As of late. this forum have been left unattended. (need to make sure we live up to the claims after all) And a lot of other reasons and such you guys will most likely take as horse shit talk. That's fine and all.


As many seems to have taken their own approach without regards of reading the very first post we urge people to read about WHY we created aion core. WHAT our goals was (subtle hint?)i feel i have to once again put on my reading glasses and state some obvious facts.


Rex and me. upon aion lightning and aion engines downfall with closed source. despite our own lack of experience in the field, after waiting to see if anyone else was willing to keep the beloved Open source alive. we decided to at least keep it alive. and if<--- possible make it into something better. starting from scratch and see who's even interested and trying to organize and making a USER FRIENDLY and STABLE Source. becoming a playground for future projects. a springboard to simply keep it alive. after establishing a rather large staff and TALKING to them ( gaps. sign of activity with the staff ? blasphemy...) about which approach to take regarding the emulator to make it as user friendly and stable as possible. a little to late did we realize our choice wasn't the best for the currently inexperienced staff. (intentionally leaving out name for the sake of.... not wanting to name people...?) and after asking the community ( gasp. another interaction ?! what is this! ;O) twas obvious what they wanted. and we decided to go with their requests aswell as the NEW staffs wants ( gasp!? we replaced backstabbers with new people? omigod interaction galore QQ) But twas short lived. people had already established for us where our project is going and what we are doing. We let the developers do as they please. After some "subtle" hints that previous developers had started a project of their own, (Project-x-network) and seemingly ( or claims to anyway. i wouldn't know) doing very well, So open source is "safe" in the sense that there is now open sources around. With that said. rex and i feel we have done what our initial responsibilities were when we created Aion Core. thus this question arises.

Question is if there's people who even WANT aion core to exist still or not?

Rex is still willing to continue if the interest is there. otherwise this forum is completely unnecessary and a waste of space.SO it's up to the community weather or not they feel up to the challenge. the project has all the necessary details to bloom with the right people.
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#2 User is offline   Rexxar 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 05:19 AM

First and foremost, I want to clarify the history behind Aion Core;

The reason Aion Core came into existence was because we were running our own server, and just like you we'd been through the hardships of constantly having to change server core, because projects kept closing and whatnot. Then later on they all went closed source for the sake of "Preserving credits", which we felt were bullshit.
Why should you be forced to use a dumbed down version of something with little to no customization available, just because the makers feels they need to be glorified and revered?
Therefore we made a poll, and asked people if they wanted to keep open source around. And they did, we got a surprisingly strong response, and that was the birth of Aion Core.

Now, I realize this project has had its ups and downs. People have come and gone, some have even ditched us mysteriously.
I realize I could have been a better admin, but it's hard to juggle a project as big as this and other life things. I've been learning lots from this experience, but apparently not fast enough.


But I'm not complaining. We managed to keep open source alive, and even managed to somehow spur other projects into existence.
I'm talking about Aion X Emu. They've been kind enough to not spam our boards with advertisements, which is appreciated and shows dedication on their end, as well as seriousness.
Therefore I'll return the favor and link to them, both as a means of promoting their project, and as a means of showing that we don't want to be enemies. We share a common goal after all... AION server development. Open Source, like it should be.

Aion X Emu

I suggest you have a look, they got a neat little project going there, they're well organized and seem to have a passionate burning spirit for what they do.


Now for us, this puts us in a somewhat troubled position.
We, or at least I, wish to keep going with this project. But at the same time, having 2 projects competing with each other will just create confusion (L2j/L2jfree style).
Not to mention the history of this project. I will keep on giving my best, but I'm not entirely sure that will be enough. I'm not sure I can learn fast enough to keep you all happy.



So it's up to you; The users.
Do you want us to keep going? Then we will try again. I will try again, try to be better than before. Try to meet all your demands and needs.
Do you want us to step down in favor of Aion X Emu? Then we will close down this forum until a time when/if it's needed again, and even temporarily redirect our domain to Aion X Emu to avoid people being lost.

We don't care about glory or fame. We care about the AION Private Server community, always have. That is all.
Please do not PM me with support requests, questions or other stuff, I will not read them.
Only PM me with important stuff. Anything deemed not important will be deleted without a reply.
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#3 User is offline   zfxp 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 12:00 PM

I can honestly say AionCore is my favorite of the engines, and please keep updating and working on it.
I will continue to offer help as much as anyone else.
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#4 User is offline   Dallas 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 05:36 PM

The fact is, that not much Java Developers has a big interest to develop the aion emulator, especially after the history of group interest fights, code stilling, credits deleting and bad managing of the source. A big part of developers which leads their project had to much EGO or wasn't active enough.
So, there is no more development on the scene. Aion-Hungary is still a two man dev. team, Aion-Core is a one man dev. team. AXE is a five man dev. team, which are very active. The AXE emulator core is the same with Aion-Core, but there was many updates an fixes, compared with the actual Aion-Core.

I have already post a same thread as "make your choice, which was deleted, because "you broke the forum rules ". Which rules, has nobody said.

So, we are here again.....people need to choice.

As for my self I made my choice.....

This post has been edited by Dallas: 29 January 2011 - 05:56 PM

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#5 User is offline   Reirei 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:09 PM

View PostDallas, on 29 January 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:

The fact is, that not much Java Developers has a big interest to develop the aion emulator, especially after the history of group interest fights, code stilling, credits deleting and bad managing of the source. A big part of developers which leads their project had to much EGO or wasn't active enough.
So, there is no more development on the scene. Aion-Hungary is still a two man dev. team, Aion-Core is a one man dev. team. AXE is a five man dev. team, which are very active. The AXE emulator core is the same with Aion-Core, but there was many updates an fixes, compared with the actual Aion-Core.

I have already post a same thread as "make your choice, which was deleted, because "you broke the forum rules ". Which rules, has nobody said.

So, we are here again.....people need to choice.

As for my self I made my choice.....


you made a choise by self proclaiming aion core's future and even put it so far as to create a sub aion-core with a similar name and dare call it a " continuation" . it cant be a "continuation" if aion core hasnt ended yet ;P
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#6 User is offline   Ezio 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 11:40 PM

hell yes i want aion core to stay around ive been trying to teach myself java and im actually doing pretty well as of right now all thanks to you guys this whole aion core project fueled my quest to learn java and i want this open source to continue!
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#7 User is offline   Rexxar 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 12:25 AM

View PostDallas, on 29 January 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:

I have already post a same thread as "make your choice, which was deleted, because "you broke the forum rules ". Which rules, has nobody said.

So, we are here again.....people need to choice.


Like Rei said, the reason your topic was deleted is because you essentially proclaimed yourself as some kind of all knowing sage in terms of Aion Core's future. I am the project leader, so is Rei. Not you. We decide when Aion Core is "closed", not you.
The second reason was the fact that you linked a project which has stolen our name and self-proclaimed themselves to be the "Aion Core Continuation". A project you're an ADMIN of. This is horribly rude behavior to the point where your mother would be ashamed of you should she learn about it. The only reason you're not banned yet is because of your past actions which has been helpful, so I overlooked this just once.

And yes. We are giving people a CHOICE. Unlike Magenik and AE/AL/AL2 we are giving our users the choice of what will happen to this project, what they want us to do. We make decisions WITH them, not FOR them.
If you have a problem with this then you're better off scurrying off to your "continuation project" and tell your minions to stroke your ePeen some more.
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#8 User is offline   Dallas 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 01:08 AM

I was saying that the aion-core have a continuation and he has one. As aion-core is an ex-aion-engine, so AXE is a continuation of ex-aion-engine+aion-core. What's not true here?
Nobody say that aion-core is death but now,people can join aion-hungary, AXE, or stay here. No more, no less.

This post has been edited by Dallas: 30 January 2011 - 01:10 AM

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#9 User is offline   Rexxar 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 01:28 AM

View PostDallas, on 30 January 2011 - 01:08 AM, said:

I was saying that the aion-core have a continuation and he has one. As aion-core is an ex-aion-engine, so AXE is a continuation of ex-aion-engine+aion-core. What's not true here?
Nobody say that aion-core is death but now,people can join aion-hungary, AXE, or stay here. No more, no less.


I was talking about your "Aion Core Europe", which essentially stole our name, added "Europe" to the end to make it seem less like blatant theft, and then proclaimed itself to be the continuation of us.
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#10 User is offline   RaXaR 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 03:37 AM

I saw this topic and thought it would be interesting to see what you guys were planning. I like the way you guys have things structured and at first thought you were on the right track. I saw that you were building your server on the hard work of others namely AE/AL and I thought it was quite admirable that you retained 'credit' to them.

Then a few revisions ago Aion Core deleted all mention of both AE and AL from the source code, these projects weren't even mentioned or credited anywhere, which I think isn't very proactive towards an "open source/GPL" mindset.

I was very interested in helping this project out, but now I'm feeling very uncertain as to whether or not it would be worth it since it's clear that you guys don't really give a shit about other people's efforts/time (partly by your own admission if you read between the lines further up this thread).

I think, based on the things that you guys say it probably would be a good idea to redirect to a server who's core staff is both more active and more interested in advancing the server tech.

Just my 2c, good luck with whichever direction you choose.
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#11 User is offline   Dallas 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 03:42 AM

View PostRexxar, on 30 January 2011 - 01:28 AM, said:

I was talking about your "Aion Core Europe", which essentially stole our name, added "Europe" to the end to make it seem less like blatant theft, and then proclaimed itself to be the continuation of us.


Sorry if you think so. You can not brand the two words AION and CORE. All "aion" emulators are based on a "core", so you can not brand the to words. Not same as aion "lightning" , "engine" or "mercedes".
A domain aion-core.com, is a legion on Aion, are they stolen the name?

Basically, we've tried to give a alternative way , another way to people, to develop the core, as here was no SVN updates, no activity.
Try to understand.....the first who are left this project was your dev. team. So, nobody is a continuation of you, but unfortunately we can not exclude the two words "aion" and "core" from our vocabulary.
You think that it will be a problem if somebody will open a project with the name, "aion-austria, "aion-uk", "aion-germany", only because is alreday aionj-hungary exists?

We should stop bashing each other, nobody has a profit from...

This post has been edited by Dallas: 30 January 2011 - 03:46 AM

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#12 User is offline   Khaos 

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 11:36 AM

Well, as I know bein handling much with English and I have all this conversation understands right. Mainly I will expose my case. As you know i was working and support the Core Aion in all I could according to my time and other factors, but I saw that the project did not continue and a lot of people who wanted to make it big and was not looked at my hand, I imagine that he would return to masquerade as the other projects would close, unfortunately I've been through more than 4 projects have been completed and what we want is a project that will last but even if by little progress.

These projects are the leaders, but live for the passion of users. I decided to go Aion Emu X because I saw what they wanted was what I wanted after that I saw no progress Aion Core. If not this election be selfish but I have always been faithful to all projects until they have closed, but in my case it is very tiring always receive sticks and so I thought it appropriate that Emu X Aion will be the best option.

I know you did good job and nobody is perfect Rexxar, thank you for all that, but the truth that if we want a good project and people need to attract business.

It is my simple opinion. It's never good to conflict between 2 projects since I was a long time Admin l2 and 2 L2J and L2JFree best projects will mixing is to create a better project. Since it is the same base can look at that option.
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#13 User is offline   Rexxar 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 03:10 AM

View PostRaXaR, on 30 January 2011 - 03:37 AM, said:

Then a few revisions ago Aion Core deleted all mention of both AE and AL from the source code, these projects weren't even mentioned or credited anywhere, which I think isn't very proactive towards an "open source/GPL" mindset.

I was very interested in helping this project out, but now I'm feeling very uncertain as to whether or not it would be worth it since it's clear that you guys don't really give a shit about other people's efforts/time (partly by your own admission if you read between the lines further up this thread).


I agree. While we are not big on the whole "Must have credits" thing, we believe that it's important to leave behind the "signatures" of people who has helped the project.
If it's the truth that someone has been editing out all the credits from other projects and replaced it with our own, they have done something horribly wrong and should be slapped for it.

Mind telling me the revision at which this occurred, and if possible which files?


View PostDallas, on 30 January 2011 - 03:42 AM, said:

Sorry if you think so. You can not brand the two words AION and CORE. All "aion" emulators are based on a "core", so you can not brand the to words. Not same as aion "lightning" , "engine" or "mercedes".
A domain aion-core.com, is a legion on Aion, are they stolen the name?

Basically, we've tried to give a alternative way , another way to people, to develop the core, as here was no SVN updates, no activity.
Try to understand.....the first who are left this project was your dev. team. So, nobody is a continuation of you, but unfortunately we can not exclude the two words "aion" and "core" from our vocabulary.
You think that it will be a problem if somebody will open a project with the name, "aion-austria, "aion-uk", "aion-germany", only because is alreday aionj-hungary exists?

We should stop bashing each other, nobody has a profit from...


Oh please. Stop with the copyright/brand bullshit. I wasn't talking about legal copyright here, I was talking about theft and rudeness.

If I were to name myself "Dallas 2" and claim to be you, just better... Would you find that to be okay? No. You wouldn't.
You'd feel like like I was stealing your name and your accomplishments, since I am essentially claiming to be you.

The same logic applies here. Me and Rei created the Aion Core community from scratch. We watched it grow into what it is today, a fairly famous name that most private server owners knows about.
And now you and your friend comes along here and call yourself "Aion Core Europe" and claim to be the continuation of this project.

You are not creating a project from scratch and work to make it grow... You are stealing our name, our accomplishments and our hard work so that you won't have to do it yourself. You are leeching off our hard work. And you are trying to confuse our users into joining you while thinking that your project is actually our project.

You are just like those greedy record-companies who leeches off the hard work of artists and claims it as their own.


That is the truth, and no amount of logic from your end can reason away this fact. So don't bother trying.

Had you picked your own name like Aion X Emu then it would have been okay, but you aren't doing that, you took our name and are claiming to be US so that you won't have to bother trying to work hard and build a name for yourselves. And that is NOT okay.
And to make it worse you added "Europe" to the end of our name, so that if people point out the name-stealing, you can just defend yourself by saying "Nono names aren't the same, look! It got 'Europe' at thend! Not similar, nope nope!", which just shows off even further that your original intentions were to steal our name. Nothing else.
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#14 User is offline   Reirei 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 07:40 AM

To raxar: that the admins dont care about anything / the community is pure bullshit and if you read between the lines of my first post then you better know the whole story before assuming ( wanna know for sure ? ask instead of assuming. saves everyone from needless drama that someone -cough-untamed-cough- started to begin with.)


To dallas. No one claimed we copyrighted our name. nor that your project breaks the copyright laws. What we DO complain about is the morals.

1: You claim aion core to be dead. on false assumptions. not only is this rude but also very, very false.
2: you claim to be a continuation of a "Dead" project. once again. thats your claims and assumptions. wich again. is false. you are NOT a continuation of "aion core" as long as we are still alive. so that claim is bullshit.
3: we support aion X emu cause we do think they are doing a good job ( so far) despite me not being active to see every progress on their side. but we feel that THEY at least didnt try become something WE stand for. they are their own. unlike "aion core europe" that is based on false assumptions and prejudications. what confuses me is if aion core now is "dead" why would continueing on such an emulator be a good idea to begin with.
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#15 User is offline   Dallas 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 10:45 AM

You simply made the mistake to take a very general name as aion and core. You can not reserve only for you the definitions. As from a project which was started from scratch, I don't really understand what do you mean. A forum? A SVN?

Quote

1: You claim aion core to be dead. on false assumptions. not only is this rude but also very, very false.


I never said that, you say that. I must not say that, but the fact is:

Most online in forum: Dallas, Google. LOL

And finaly something for your records: Aion-Core was never you. Aion-Core was the Community and the developers which are 97% left this project, not because Dallas. Many god developers and people who has post patches and fixes has even never register again, after you deleting the old forum. I recovered such realy god postings for the community.

But I will stop here. I don't like bashing people, but you can only do that and nothing more.
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#16 User is offline   Rexxar 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 05:05 PM

View PostDallas, on 31 January 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

You simply made the mistake to take a very general name as aion and core. You can not reserve only for you the definitions. As from a project which was started from scratch, I don't really understand what do you mean. A forum? A SVN?


Going by your logic I could open a restaurant and name it "McDonald's" because that's a common old-school last name.
Hell it's so common that there's even a nursery rhyme about it; "Old McDonald had a farm".

Sorry but the world doesn't work that way, you can't steal someone's name and then claim it's just simply because they used a name that's "too common".

And even so, why the hell do you name your community "Aion Core Europe" then? Isn't that also "too common"?
You even used the term "Europe" in there which is a frigging continent and therefore on like the top 25 list of the most used words in the English vocabulary.

Please stop being such a hypocrite. =/


View PostDallas, on 31 January 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

I never said that, you say that. I must not say that, but the fact is:

Most online in forum: Dallas, Google. LOL


Clearly you don't know the meaning of the word "implication".

http://dictionary.re...om/browse/imply

That link will help you understand. You were implying that we were dead through your choice of words.


View PostDallas, on 31 January 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

And finaly something for your records: Aion-Core was never you. Aion-Core was the Community and the developers which are 97% left this project, not because Dallas. Many god developers and people who has post patches and fixes has even never register again, after you deleting the old forum. I recovered such realy god postings for the community.


It is true that Aion Core were the community, but we were the creators of that community. Thus Aion Core is both us, as well as the community.
As for the developers, they left before the forum wipe. The only reason you noticed that they were gone was because they had left and didn't come back once the forum got reinstalled.
Not to mention, the forum didn't get deleted, it was reinstalled due to a bug that kept messing up the user table in the database. I still got the backup of the old forum but haven't released it because I don't want to give out all the user passwords (hashed or not, it's still private information), emails and other information.

Get your facts straight, please.

View PostDallas, on 31 January 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

But I will stop here. I don't like bashing people, but you can only do that and nothing more.


Oh but for the love of god, please stop being so self-righteous.

Please learn to differentiate between "bashing" and "correcting".

http://dictionary.re...owse/correcting
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#17 User is offline   Dallas 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 06:33 PM

View PostRexxar, on 31 January 2011 - 05:05 PM, said:

Going by your logic I could open a restaurant and name it "McDonald's" because that's a common old-school last name.
Hell it's so common that there's even a nursery rhyme about it; "Old McDonald had a farm".


Very bad example..but anyway...you are confusing a general definition with unique name, as "McDonald's" or "Chanel".

A better example is "Whiskey" = Bourbon, Jack Daniels, Scotch, Jim Beam and many more....

AION-Rexxaer is a unique name :D










This post has been edited by Dallas: 31 January 2011 - 06:36 PM

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#18 User is offline   Loxo 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 07:56 PM

The URL doesn't mean that names used in belong to you (just the entire name like aioncore.com which's officially own by Rexxar) but it's a moral and common sense thing.

For the example, there was a train company (unfortunately I don't remember sources, it was a long ago) which reserved many domain names for marketings purpose like train(-)company.uk/ru/fr/de/com/...
They forgot one name, one of their employee noticed it and reserved it because he wanted to make a non-profit website for his train's passion. The company saw that and they decided to attack him in justice, they won, they were able to retake the domain name and made the guy pay.

Here we don't really care if there's another aion-core, but the problem is (from what I can read) that you tried to make a continuation and gave false rumors/informations about us to promote your project. We can't approve that even if you named your project Aion Core Europe.

Since I don't really know what's going on and if you feel that my whole post is just nonsense concerning what's happening here, just ignore it.

But in my opinion we won't go anywhere with this sort of discussion, we should decide what will become Aion Core and what's the best for all of us.
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#19 User is offline   Dallas 

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 08:29 PM

View PostLoxo, on 31 January 2011 - 07:56 PM, said:

The URL doesn't mean that names used in belong to you (just the entire name like aioncore.com which's officially own by Rexxar) but it's a moral and common sense thing.

For the example, there was a train company (unfortunately I don't remember sources, it was a long ago) which reserved many domain names for marketings purpose like train(-)company.uk/ru/fr/de/com/...
They forgot one name, one of their employee noticed it and reserved it because he wanted to make a non-profit website for his train's passion. The company saw that and they decided to attack him in justice, they won, they were able to retake the domain name and made the guy pay.

Here we don't really care if there's another aion-core, but the problem is (from what I can read) that you tried to make a continuation and gave false rumors/informations about us to promote your project. We can't approve that even if you named your project Aion Core Europe.

Since I don't really know what's going on and if you feel that my whole post is just nonsense concerning what's happening here, just ignore it.

But in my opinion we won't go anywhere with this sort of discussion, we should decide what will become Aion Core and what's the best for all of us.


I have never promoted here anything. I said that, that people has new alternative where they can go, or stay here.

Anyway, I'm out from the discussion.

Wish you all the best,
Dallas
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#20 User is offline   Rexxar 

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:30 AM

View PostLoxo, on 31 January 2011 - 07:56 PM, said:

The URL doesn't mean that names used in belong to you (just the entire name like aioncore.com which's officially own by Rexxar) but it's a moral and common sense thing.

For the example, there was a train company (unfortunately I don't remember sources, it was a long ago) which reserved many domain names for marketings purpose like train(-)company.uk/ru/fr/de/com/...
They forgot one name, one of their employee noticed it and reserved it because he wanted to make a non-profit website for his train's passion. The company saw that and they decided to attack him in justice, they won, they were able to retake the domain name and made the guy pay.

Here we don't really care if there's another aion-core, but the problem is (from what I can read) that you tried to make a continuation and gave false rumors/informations about us to promote your project. We can't approve that even if you named your project Aion Core Europe.

Since I don't really know what's going on and if you feel that my whole post is just nonsense concerning what's happening here, just ignore it.

But in my opinion we won't go anywhere with this sort of discussion, we should decide what will become Aion Core and what's the best for all of us.


Thank you for providing a reasonable post with a nice example. Using general names and such is okay. "Stealing" names by claiming to be said thing, or "continuation" of said thing, is not okay.

But yeah, we need to figure out what to do now. So far it doesn't look very bright, since most of our community seems to have fluttered off to the new shiny XEmu community.
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